> Do you want developers who are great at making resumes, or
> great at coding?
> Can I write the next next idiotic Artima post on hiring?
> I'll advocate that you not hire developers if the color of
> their interview clothes doesn't properly complement their
> eyes and complexion. I mean, just like a resume, if they
> want to show knowledge and experience they could research
> and do that, right?

There are no hard and fast rules, but I've hired quite a few people, and I've almost always regretted the hires that didn't demonstrate respectfulness in their dress, resume, whatever, because ultimately the same habits appeared in their code. That is to say that I disagree with your response, although I am not implying that you match the category of people whom I am describing.

FWIW.

At the end of the day, the people who care are the ones cleaning up the messes of the people who don't care, and figuring out which ones care and which ones lack the capacity to care is the first order of business when hiring. If for no other reason than this: It's not fair to the rest of your team that _does_ care to pollute the team with someone who doesn't care.

Peace,

Cameron Purdy | Oracle Coherence
http://coherence.oracle.com/

> I'll agree with that. OTOH, the remark which started this
> sub-thread was specific to not wearing a tie (and suit,
> most likely). I've had more than a few interviews where I
> was the only one in the room with suit and tie. Was I
> being disrespected????????????????

I have never worn a suit or tie to an interview, but what's wrong with comfortable semi-formal attire? Just being presentable so you can give your prospective employer the confidence that you would be able to represent his/her company in a professional manner? That doesn't require going all out. If someone doesn't really care much for his appearance why should I be confident that he/she is going to care about how he/she portrays or carries the company image?

> I'll agree with that. OTOH, the remark which started this
> sub-thread was specific to not wearing a tie (and suit,
> most likely). I've had more than a few interviews where I
> was the only one in the room with suit and tie. Was I
> being disrespected????????????????

I have never worn a suit or tie to an interview, but what's wrong with comfortable semi-formal attire? Just being presentable so you can give your prospective employer the confidence that you would be able to represent his/her company in a professional manner? That doesn't require going all out. If someone doesn't really care much for his appearance why should I be confident that he/she is going to care about how he/she portrays or carries the company image?

This is purely business and not about being disrespected and if I don't have a certain level that there will be a mutually beneficial relationship with a candidate - whether its based on how he presents himself or otherwise - I just won't hire him, as simple as that.

It seems like there are two sides to this argument. But really the two sides can't see a much easier resolution.

Just pay somebody who is a professional resume writer to write the resume for you. Recoup the costs of the hired gun in your signing bonus.

Problem solved.

Adam Smith's division of labor at proud work.

That means you can take the $20 you might spend on Sean's book or Programming Interviews Exposed, and put it towards a book on F# to update your skills in the changing job market.

> put it towards
> a book on F# to update your skills in the changing job
> market.

A "me too" functional language from a moribund company?

*buttons his top collar to avoid being judged by Cameron as lazy*

Ahem, F# is shorter to type than Scala.

Besides, ideally you won't be learning just a language, but understanding concurrency & coordination primitives.

> Here's one of many simple reasons why the quality of my
> work and the quality of my resume may differ:
> I've been with the same employer for over twenty years.
> Therefore I have twenty years of experience in my work
> but have never written a resume in that time.

If you need to use a new technology in your job, I'm assuming you wouldn't just wing it, but would first learn enough about to avoid pitfalls of the technology. And no doubt, you would carefully test your code; you might also ask a co-worker to review your code.

Similarly, were you to suddenly find that you needed to write a resume, I'm assuming you would practice similar diligence in researching basic resume practices, and would take the time to proofread your resume, and perhaps have a trusted confidant review it before sending it out.

> ...you wouldn't just wing it...

Certainly. Other people check the work I do day to day and it would be no different on a resume. Nevertheless, the unwritten subtitle of my resume would still be "My First Resume".

I'm not seeking to contradict the advice given in the original article here, merely giving one answer to the question of why the quality of my work and the quality of my resume might differ.

> I have never worn a suit or tie to an interview,

I have never even owned a suit, let alone wear one to an interview. The last time I wore a tie was probably when I was about 14 to a wedding (I'm now 50).

This just reminds me the discussion I had with my wife a few days ago ...
I cannot write without making hundreds of mistakes (spelling / grammatical / ...)
She does not manage to have a proper hand writting (even on a paper with horizontal lines, she is not capable of writting straight).

What's more important ... ?
30 years ago, we would have needed special trainings to be sellable on the market place. Today, in this computer age, we live rather well (as long as I can activate the spelling & grammar checker and as long as she is not asked to summarize idea on a sheet of papers with a pencil).
:)


Now a sloppy résumé should be a worry, as well as wearing unapproprriate clothing ... but using this as an argument to eliminate definitively a candidate...

There are no perfect candidates ...

Hi Thomas,

> Now a sloppy résumé should be a worry, as well as wearing
> unapproprriate clothing ... but using this as an argument
> to eliminate definitively a candidate...
>
> There are no perfect candidates ...

Agreed. I think I said it before, but a resume would have be to pretty bad to eliminate a candidate on the grounds of sloppiness alone. Fortunately, sloppy resumes nearly always have other issues. Sloppiness is an excellent warning sign.

I think it's pretty funny (or sad?) that in any other professional trade this question wouldn't even be asked. Why do IT people seem to think they're different or exempt from the basic rules of business?

I've had people show up for interviews wearing sandals, jeans, and t-shirts. I dress up nicer for date night with my wife (and we've been married while too!!) Why? Because I respect her, and I believe it's not too hard to ask the same for a job applicant too (resume, interview dress, etc.)

A sloppy resume' is my first insight into the mind of my potential employee. That said, I usually take glorious resume' with a grain of salt. These days, employees have a wealth of tools and programs with which to create an amazing document, and can cleverly craft a resume' that engenders a positive response from the employer. That is why I cannot overstress the importance of a face to face interview. Of course this is my personal hiring style, but I feel that you can tell infinitely more about someone when speaking in person. Not only can you ask questions about practical knowledge (someone earlier was saying that he balked under the pressure of a face to face interview, which is understandable and I would of course make allowances for that personality type) but you can really get a feel for someone as a person and how they would gel with your team. A sloppy resume' is an initial red flag, but it is not the end all for me. When you are expecting a team member to perform under pressure 60 hour weeks (we've all been there) it is more important to me that they are a solid person, not just someone who can craft an elegant resume'.

yeah....i do agree with it...

David,
I agree. A sloppy resume speaks more than a neat resume. That said, there seems to be a correlation between sloppy and poor content, and neat and solid content.

I am always wary of the sweet smelling candidate that is really a stinker. They can do more harm to a team/organization than a plain old bad employee.