This post originated from an RSS feed registered with Python Buzz by Carlos de la Guardia. Original Post: Zope, flames and the Koolaid remark Feed Title: I blog therefore I am Feed URL: http://blog.delaguardia.com.mx/feed.atom Feed Description: A space to put my thoughts into writing. Latest Python Buzz Posts Latest Python Buzz Posts by Carlos de la Guardia Latest Posts From I blog therefore I am

Why is Zope hated with such passion by many members of the Python community?

I know it has that 'unpythonic' label attached (a term no one really can define,but certainly they know it when they see it, see this post by Chris McDonough) and I have seen it used as a bad example in many a framework comparison, but why hate it that passionately?

I mean, people go out of their way to criticize Zope. Take my blog, for instance, I might have two or three readers in all, yet every time I post something about Zope I get a negative comment.

Here are just a couple of them:

"Have a bug ridden, uncomprehendable and stupidly designed framework to exercise your mind on, and most likely the outcome of any effords put forth with it will adopt this character."

"The expirience is in overall in fact so bad that I consider anything that has touched zope as untouchable, outcast, tainted, beyond rescue etc."

I'm not the only one, of course,some more famous bloggers get these too. Take a look at this comment posted on Paul Everitt's blog in response to a post about Zope and Marketing:

"I took a long stare into the eye of what is Zope 2. Decided that I'm too young to die, and that people who worship satan to produce awfull code are not my bunch."

Or this comment to a post about framework size comparison by Peter Bengtsson:

"Ok, isn't it about time to shed the myth that Zope3 isn't in any way connected to that miserable sonofa bitch Zope2?"

Satan? Come on, and what's with the insults? No wonder Zope developers wanted no part in the recent discussion about web frameworks originted by Guido Van Rossum. They've had enough of this attitudes already. Even Guido says, though not in an insulting manner, that he is scared of anything Jim Fulton writes and that Zope requires you to drink lots of Koolaid.

And the Koolaid remark brings me to the point of my post: sharing with you this article about the Koolaid point, by Kathy Sierra. Here's a quote, but read the whole article:

"If you create passionate users, you have to expect passionate detractors. You should welcome their appearance in blogs, forums, and user groups. It means you've arrived. Forget the tipping point--if you want to measure passion, look for the koolaid point."

Of course, since Zope is the most used Python web framework ever (yeah, so flame me again), you have to expect some negativity and indeed, passion, from the people in the Python web space who think things should be done in a very different way.

So, Zope developers, don't be discouraged by all this hatred, turns out it means your efforts have been more successful than some people can tolerate.